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	<title>Comments for Cross Talk ~ crux probat omnia</title>
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	<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net</link>
	<description>Life through the lens of the cross / Biblical and theological reflections by Michael J. Gorman</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 09:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Participation and Mission in Paul by Biblioblog Carnival February 2012 &#171; Cheese-Wearing Theology</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2011/12/12/participation-and-mission-in-paul/comment-page-1/#comment-10319</link>
		<dc:creator>Biblioblog Carnival February 2012 &#171; Cheese-Wearing Theology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 06:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Gorman posts a few paragraphs from his upcoming work on the Mission of God in the writings of Paul. RJS starts the conversation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gorman posts a few paragraphs from his upcoming work on the Mission of God in the writings of Paul. RJS starts the conversation [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hauerwas on the Death of America&#8217;s (Protestant) God by Agape</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2012/01/08/hauerwas-on-the-death-of-americas-protestant-god/comment-page-1/#comment-10253</link>
		<dc:creator>Agape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 02:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=1493#comment-10253</guid>
		<description>As much as some wish it, Protestantism will not die. It may go through a crisis, low ebb, whatever but not will not die. And why? Because some people will always go to the Bible for answers as opposed to priests. Some people think that God has given them an instruction manual in the Bible, and they follow that instruction manual only. And since the Bible mentions that through Christ people have free acces to the Father in Heaven they take that literally since it is written in the Bible. Thus, some people bypass men to have direct access</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as some wish it, Protestantism will not die. It may go through a crisis, low ebb, whatever but not will not die. And why? Because some people will always go to the Bible for answers as opposed to priests. Some people think that God has given them an instruction manual in the Bible, and they follow that instruction manual only. And since the Bible mentions that through Christ people have free acces to the Father in Heaven they take that literally since it is written in the Bible. Thus, some people bypass men to have direct access</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hauerwas on the Death of America&#8217;s (Protestant) God by Robbie Grayson (@pomozone)</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2012/01/08/hauerwas-on-the-death-of-americas-protestant-god/comment-page-1/#comment-10249</link>
		<dc:creator>Robbie Grayson (@pomozone)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=1493#comment-10249</guid>
		<description>Bravo for a fresh and clear perspective on American Protestant culture!

http://pomozone2011.blogspot.com/2011/04/protestantism-exhaustible-exhausted.html

 It certainly clears up a lot of questions I've had about the rapid transience of American Protestant culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo for a fresh and clear perspective on American Protestant culture!</p>
<p><a href="http://pomozone2011.blogspot.com/2011/04/protestantism-exhaustible-exhausted.html" rel="nofollow">http://pomozone2011.blogspot.com/2011/04/protestantism-exhaustible-exhausted.html</a></p>
<p> It certainly clears up a lot of questions I&#8217;ve had about the rapid transience of American Protestant culture.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Participation and Mission in Paul by Cam</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2011/12/12/participation-and-mission-in-paul/comment-page-1/#comment-10133</link>
		<dc:creator>Cam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jan 2012 14:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=1458#comment-10133</guid>
		<description>Great! I love the conversation that's happening in the comments, too. 

I wonder if the cosmic aspects of liberation may be stated more forcefully by emphasising how creation's redemption is (almost?) contingent upon humanity's redemption. 

I also wonder about a greater emphasis on the Spirit's role as the one who conforms believers, individually and collectively, to the cruciform narrative. 

Finally, even though you've written on narrative spirituality, I do hope you pick up those threads here, too: participation is after all, the living into and out of the story of Jesus as the climax of the story of Israel. 

Oh, and if you're looking for volunteers to proof-read the MS ... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great! I love the conversation that&#8217;s happening in the comments, too. </p>
<p>I wonder if the cosmic aspects of liberation may be stated more forcefully by emphasising how creation&#8217;s redemption is (almost?) contingent upon humanity&#8217;s redemption. </p>
<p>I also wonder about a greater emphasis on the Spirit&#8217;s role as the one who conforms believers, individually and collectively, to the cruciform narrative. </p>
<p>Finally, even though you&#8217;ve written on narrative spirituality, I do hope you pick up those threads here, too: participation is after all, the living into and out of the story of Jesus as the climax of the story of Israel. </p>
<p>Oh, and if you&#8217;re looking for volunteers to proof-read the MS &#8230; <img src='http://www.michaeljgorman.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on About by Participation and Mission in Paul &#171; New Testament Scholarship Worldwide</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/about/comment-page-1/#comment-10130</link>
		<dc:creator>Participation and Mission in Paul &#171; New Testament Scholarship Worldwide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jan 2012 10:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/blog/?page_id=2#comment-10130</guid>
		<description>[...] Michael J. Gorman is Professor of Sacred Scripture and Dean of the Ecumenical Institute of Theology at St. Mary&#8217;s Seminary &#38; University in Baltimore, Maryland. He is a United Methodist in a Catholic institution with strong ecumenical commitments. For more info about Prof. Gorman, click here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michael J. Gorman is Professor of Sacred Scripture and Dean of the Ecumenical Institute of Theology at St. Mary&#8217;s Seminary &amp; University in Baltimore, Maryland. He is a United Methodist in a Catholic institution with strong ecumenical commitments. For more info about Prof. Gorman, click here [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Participation and Mission in Paul by Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2011/12/12/participation-and-mission-in-paul/comment-page-1/#comment-10091</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 18:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=1458#comment-10091</guid>
		<description>Dr. Gorman,

I appreciate your obvious commitment to the proclamation of the gospel as the mission of the church, and that you are examining how we participate in that mission by word, deed and possibly suffering (which tends to accompany verbal proclamation rather than the doing of good deeds).

However, the one phrase of yours which I question is "become the gospel".  I think that it's wrong to suggest (even if this is mostly a quibble over semantics) that we 'are' the gospel, or that we 'do' the gospel.  The gospel is a *message* which has been entrusted to us to *proclaim* (which always indicates verbalization in scripture).  If anyone can 'be' the gospel, or 'do' the gospel, it is Christ alone--His finished work.  Our pastor has favored this type of phraseology for some years now and I think that there is much more to it than words alone as I have seen how it plays out (in his case).  As the emphasis shifted farther and farther toward attending to the doing, becoming and 'living out of' the gospel, verbal proclamation fell entirely by the wayside.

Your overall view of this subject appears to be far healthier and more balanced than what I now see at our church.....where even the gospel itself has now undergone severe erosion.  But I question wrapping up 'deed'  in the 'mission'.  The mission was commanded by Christ--Matt. 28.  It's certainly true to say that our deeds can open doors for proclamation, and our deeds have value separate from proclamation.  I think that Paul in Acts is our example of what it is to obey the Great Commission...which IS the mission.  This does not downplay the importance of the cosmic implications of the gospel.  The impact of Christians on the world at large is a 'byproduct' of a transformed heart--which is a work of God's Spirit.  Not to say that we don't need to apply effort here, we DO need to be purposeful, as much as we also need to repent of sin continuously.   But, this brings us back to the primary mission--to proclaim the gospel so that individual hearts will be transformed, and thus bring light to others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Gorman,</p>
<p>I appreciate your obvious commitment to the proclamation of the gospel as the mission of the church, and that you are examining how we participate in that mission by word, deed and possibly suffering (which tends to accompany verbal proclamation rather than the doing of good deeds).</p>
<p>However, the one phrase of yours which I question is &#8220;become the gospel&#8221;.  I think that it&#8217;s wrong to suggest (even if this is mostly a quibble over semantics) that we &#8216;are&#8217; the gospel, or that we &#8216;do&#8217; the gospel.  The gospel is a *message* which has been entrusted to us to *proclaim* (which always indicates verbalization in scripture).  If anyone can &#8216;be&#8217; the gospel, or &#8216;do&#8217; the gospel, it is Christ alone&#8211;His finished work.  Our pastor has favored this type of phraseology for some years now and I think that there is much more to it than words alone as I have seen how it plays out (in his case).  As the emphasis shifted farther and farther toward attending to the doing, becoming and &#8216;living out of&#8217; the gospel, verbal proclamation fell entirely by the wayside.</p>
<p>Your overall view of this subject appears to be far healthier and more balanced than what I now see at our church&#8230;..where even the gospel itself has now undergone severe erosion.  But I question wrapping up &#8216;deed&#8217;  in the &#8216;mission&#8217;.  The mission was commanded by Christ&#8211;Matt. 28.  It&#8217;s certainly true to say that our deeds can open doors for proclamation, and our deeds have value separate from proclamation.  I think that Paul in Acts is our example of what it is to obey the Great Commission&#8230;which IS the mission.  This does not downplay the importance of the cosmic implications of the gospel.  The impact of Christians on the world at large is a &#8216;byproduct&#8217; of a transformed heart&#8211;which is a work of God&#8217;s Spirit.  Not to say that we don&#8217;t need to apply effort here, we DO need to be purposeful, as much as we also need to repent of sin continuously.   But, this brings us back to the primary mission&#8211;to proclaim the gospel so that individual hearts will be transformed, and thus bring light to others.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Participation and Mission in Paul by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2011/12/12/participation-and-mission-in-paul/comment-page-1/#comment-10090</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=1458#comment-10090</guid>
		<description>I posted this comment over at Michael Bird's blog, but then figured I'd go to the source.  Your post is spot on, Mr. Gorman.  But the only problem I have is that God doesn't appear to be at work doing many of those things you are saying he is. If God has created "multicultural, socio-economically diverse" communities, where are they? They're not in my city.  Where are these communities that "live in conformity to the self-giving divine love displayed on the cross?" Love, sure. Frequently sacrificial love, sure. But the kind which conforms to what was displayed on the cross? Not even close. So if participation is "essential" to salvation, most of our churches are screwed.

I'm not trying to be confrontational. It's just that I've heard enough of these theological flourishes and I want theologians who see the world for what it is, not just for what it ideally should be. The latter (ideal state) is a beaten theological dead horse. The former (current state) is where theologians have real potential to do their best work yet.  And I'm hopeful that the remainder of your book addresses the situation we find ourselves in.  And I'm especially excited to hear the "how" part given that I've recently committed myself to a local church and we are trying to do just this kind of thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted this comment over at Michael Bird&#8217;s blog, but then figured I&#8217;d go to the source.  Your post is spot on, Mr. Gorman.  But the only problem I have is that God doesn&#8217;t appear to be at work doing many of those things you are saying he is. If God has created &#8220;multicultural, socio-economically diverse&#8221; communities, where are they? They&#8217;re not in my city.  Where are these communities that &#8220;live in conformity to the self-giving divine love displayed on the cross?&#8221; Love, sure. Frequently sacrificial love, sure. But the kind which conforms to what was displayed on the cross? Not even close. So if participation is &#8220;essential&#8221; to salvation, most of our churches are screwed.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not trying to be confrontational. It&#8217;s just that I&#8217;ve heard enough of these theological flourishes and I want theologians who see the world for what it is, not just for what it ideally should be. The latter (ideal state) is a beaten theological dead horse. The former (current state) is where theologians have real potential to do their best work yet.  And I&#8217;m hopeful that the remainder of your book addresses the situation we find ourselves in.  And I&#8217;m especially excited to hear the &#8220;how&#8221; part given that I&#8217;ve recently committed myself to a local church and we are trying to do just this kind of thing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on N.T. Wright Wheaton Conference Report (2) by Church Tradition, Reading Scripture and N.T. Wright (part 2) &#171; Dunelm Road</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2010/04/19/nt-wright-wheaton-conference-report-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10041</link>
		<dc:creator>Church Tradition, Reading Scripture and N.T. Wright (part 2) &#171; Dunelm Road</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2012 08:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=977#comment-10041</guid>
		<description>[...] interpreters while also realising that they were humans. Michael Gorman makes some good points here about the role of the creeds (and tradition) that are worth [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] interpreters while also realising that they were humans. Michael Gorman makes some good points here about the role of the creeds (and tradition) that are worth [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on April in Greece and Turkey, Anyone? by MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2011/12/27/april-in-greece-and-turkey-anyone/comment-page-1/#comment-10009</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2012 13:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=1489#comment-10009</guid>
		<description>As you probably now know, I answered your email.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you probably now know, I answered your email.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Participation and Mission in Paul by MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2011/12/12/participation-and-mission-in-paul/comment-page-1/#comment-10008</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2012 13:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=1458#comment-10008</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Dan. Your emphasis on the Spirit is important, as it was to Paul. I think Paul saw his churches less as communities going somewhere as communities taking on a certain (cruciform, servant) shape &lt;em&gt;where they were/are&lt;/em&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Dan. Your emphasis on the Spirit is important, as it was to Paul. I think Paul saw his churches less as communities going somewhere as communities taking on a certain (cruciform, servant) shape <em>where they were/are</em>.</p>
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