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	<title>Comments on: Translating Philippians 2:5-11</title>
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	<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/09/06/translating-philippians-25-11/</link>
	<description>Life through the lens of the cross / Biblical and theological reflections by Michael J. Gorman</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 09:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/09/06/translating-philippians-25-11/comment-page-1/#comment-668</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=588#comment-668</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your clarification--I anticipate your response!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your clarification&#8211;I anticipate your response!</p>
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		<title>By: MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/09/06/translating-philippians-25-11/comment-page-1/#comment-661</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=588#comment-661</guid>
		<description>Jason (and all),

My hasty previous comment (now removed) was insufficiently nuanced, so please ignore it; I will post later a better response. Clearly "the name of Jesus" is not the name "Jesus" but "Lord," kyrios. Is that exactly the same as YHWH? That's the part that needs a more nuanced response. One of my students at Duke, now at UVa, wrote a fascinating thesis on this topic, and I will come back to it. My use of the term "title" should not be understood to negate the idea that in an accession the current ruler or deity gives his name to the new ruler. More later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason (and all),</p>
<p>My hasty previous comment (now removed) was insufficiently nuanced, so please ignore it; I will post later a better response. Clearly &#8220;the name of Jesus&#8221; is not the name &#8220;Jesus&#8221; but &#8220;Lord,&#8221; kyrios. Is that exactly the same as YHWH? That&#8217;s the part that needs a more nuanced response. One of my students at Duke, now at UVa, wrote a fascinating thesis on this topic, and I will come back to it. My use of the term &#8220;title&#8221; should not be understood to negate the idea that in an accession the current ruler or deity gives his name to the new ruler. More later.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/09/06/translating-philippians-25-11/comment-page-1/#comment-655</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 03:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=588#comment-655</guid>
		<description>Interesting rendering--can't say I've come across that particular understanding of v. 5. I am curious about your take on v. 9. You render ονομα as "title." Is this title "Lord" is v. 11 or something else? I ask because I have heard varying opinions on the "name" given to Jesus--that it's not "Jesus" but Yahweh. Curious as to your thoughts...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting rendering&#8211;can&#8217;t say I&#8217;ve come across that particular understanding of v. 5. I am curious about your take on v. 9. You render ονομα as &#8220;title.&#8221; Is this title &#8220;Lord&#8221; is v. 11 or something else? I ask because I have heard varying opinions on the &#8220;name&#8221; given to Jesus&#8211;that it&#8217;s not &#8220;Jesus&#8221; but Yahweh. Curious as to your thoughts&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/09/06/translating-philippians-25-11/comment-page-1/#comment-654</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=588#comment-654</guid>
		<description>Bruce,

Thanks; I have responded on your blog and am creating a post with your text and my response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce,</p>
<p>Thanks; I have responded on your blog and am creating a post with your text and my response.</p>
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		<title>By: bruce hamill</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/09/06/translating-philippians-25-11/comment-page-1/#comment-653</link>
		<dc:creator>bruce hamill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=588#comment-653</guid>
		<description>Since I'm taking your name in vain in my blog I thought I'd let you know. Sorry this is not a comment on your translation of Philippians, however I do mention your 'kenotic' theology. Im at http://dbhamill.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/theosis-and-participation-in-christ/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I&#8217;m taking your name in vain in my blog I thought I&#8217;d let you know. Sorry this is not a comment on your translation of Philippians, however I do mention your &#8216;kenotic&#8217; theology. Im at <a href="http://dbhamill.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/theosis-and-participation-in-christ/" rel="nofollow">http://dbhamill.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/theosis-and-participation-in-christ/</a></p>
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		<title>By: MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/09/06/translating-philippians-25-11/comment-page-1/#comment-652</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=588#comment-652</guid>
		<description>Dennis,

My translation does not depend on &lt;em&gt;kai &lt;/em&gt;meaning &lt;em&gt;est&lt;/em&gt;, because &lt;em&gt;ho kai&lt;/em&gt; is short for &lt;em&gt;ho kai estin&lt;/em&gt;. There are other instances of it, but it's been a while since I had them at my fingertips. Another, and perhaps better, Latin equivalent could be &lt;em&gt;qui et&lt;/em&gt;. The Vulgate is simply grabbing the two equivalent words of the Greek, not actually translating the sense of them.

G.B. Caird, in a little commentary on Philippians, is the other one who has also suggested this translation. See further discussion in my &lt;em&gt;Cruciformity&lt;/em&gt;, 40-44.

The strength of my translation is, in part, that it keeps &lt;em&gt;en Christo &lt;/em&gt;language as a reference to being in Christ, as it is elsewhere in Paul. And nowhere else does he speak of something (like a mindset) being in Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis,</p>
<p>My translation does not depend on <em>kai </em>meaning <em>est</em>, because <em>ho kai</em> is short for <em>ho kai estin</em>. There are other instances of it, but it&#8217;s been a while since I had them at my fingertips. Another, and perhaps better, Latin equivalent could be <em>qui et</em>. The Vulgate is simply grabbing the two equivalent words of the Greek, not actually translating the sense of them.</p>
<p>G.B. Caird, in a little commentary on Philippians, is the other one who has also suggested this translation. See further discussion in my <em>Cruciformity</em>, 40-44.</p>
<p>The strength of my translation is, in part, that it keeps <em>en Christo </em>language as a reference to being in Christ, as it is elsewhere in Paul. And nowhere else does he speak of something (like a mindset) being in Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: RevDrDRE</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/09/06/translating-philippians-25-11/comment-page-1/#comment-651</link>
		<dc:creator>RevDrDRE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=588#comment-651</guid>
		<description>Hmm...that's interesting.  The Vulgate has quod et at Phil 2:5.  Also, I suspect you know that Gordon Fee says that "kai does not = est under any circumstances" (his Philippians commentary, p. 201, n. 33). Do you know of other places where ho kai = id est?   I do find your translation intriguing, suggesting that the community is one that can be described as "in Christ Jesus," an important Pauline description.  However, it seems stronger to suggest, as per the usual translations, that Paul wants the community to have the same attitude "which also" is in Christ Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230;that&#8217;s interesting.  The Vulgate has quod et at Phil 2:5.  Also, I suspect you know that Gordon Fee says that &#8220;kai does not = est under any circumstances&#8221; (his Philippians commentary, p. 201, n. 33). Do you know of other places where ho kai = id est?   I do find your translation intriguing, suggesting that the community is one that can be described as &#8220;in Christ Jesus,&#8221; an important Pauline description.  However, it seems stronger to suggest, as per the usual translations, that Paul wants the community to have the same attitude &#8220;which also&#8221; is in Christ Jesus.</p>
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		<title>By: MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/09/06/translating-philippians-25-11/comment-page-1/#comment-648</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 02:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=588#comment-648</guid>
		<description>Sorry--I preach from notes only, but if you email me at mjg at michaeljgorman.net, I can send the outline, though it won't tell you a lot. Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry&#8211;I preach from notes only, but if you email me at mjg at michaeljgorman.net, I can send the outline, though it won&#8217;t tell you a lot. Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: mshedden</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/09/06/translating-philippians-25-11/comment-page-1/#comment-647</link>
		<dc:creator>mshedden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 02:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=588#comment-647</guid>
		<description>Any chance you can post your sermon or email to me? I would interested in reading that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any chance you can post your sermon or email to me? I would interested in reading that?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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