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	<title>Comments on: Theosis and Mission: The Conversation Continues</title>
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	<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/</link>
	<description>Life through the lens of the cross / Biblical and theological reflections by Michael J. Gorman</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-624</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=542#comment-624</guid>
		<description>Sue,

Before you make broad generalizations, may I ask if you have read the book? If not, why don't you? From the post, it would seem that you are up to the intellectual challenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sue,</p>
<p>Before you make broad generalizations, may I ask if you have read the book? If not, why don&#8217;t you? From the post, it would seem that you are up to the intellectual challenge.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-623</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=542#comment-623</guid>
		<description>What could the name/title "inhabiting the cruciform god" possibly refer to that is in any sense real in the now quantum world of 2009. 

A quantum world which Einstein (via E=MC2) told us that everything is just a temporary always changing (moment to moment) modification of energy or play of light.  

Put in another way, ALL of this is just a Light show, or a boundless field of radiant energy.

Blake: Energy IS eternal de-lite (delight)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What could the name/title &#8220;inhabiting the cruciform god&#8221; possibly refer to that is in any sense real in the now quantum world of 2009. </p>
<p>A quantum world which Einstein (via E=MC2) told us that everything is just a temporary always changing (moment to moment) modification of energy or play of light.  </p>
<p>Put in another way, ALL of this is just a Light show, or a boundless field of radiant energy.</p>
<p>Blake: Energy IS eternal de-lite (delight)</p>
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		<title>By: MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-605</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 04:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=542#comment-605</guid>
		<description>Dear Jesse,

Thanks for the comments; I'm glad you benefited from the book. Hope you have the second edition!!

Blessings on your ministry!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Jesse,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments; I&#8217;m glad you benefited from the book. Hope you have the second edition!!</p>
<p>Blessings on your ministry!</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Waggoner</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-604</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Waggoner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=542#comment-604</guid>
		<description>(posting here as e-mail did not work)
Dear Dr. Gorman:

I have just finished reading your book Elements of Biblical Exegesis and just wanted to thank you for your efforts.  I have been a pastor for nearly 30 years and found much to refresh my thinking in this area.  I am a former United Methodist who has gravitated to conservative evangelicalism and while I could differ with some of your editorial comments, I want to commend you for  the wealth of practical suggestions and your obvious passion for understanding God's Word.

Blessings,
Jesse Waggoner

http://www.twitter.com/JesseWaggoner</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(posting here as e-mail did not work)<br />
Dear Dr. Gorman:</p>
<p>I have just finished reading your book Elements of Biblical Exegesis and just wanted to thank you for your efforts.  I have been a pastor for nearly 30 years and found much to refresh my thinking in this area.  I am a former United Methodist who has gravitated to conservative evangelicalism and while I could differ with some of your editorial comments, I want to commend you for  the wealth of practical suggestions and your obvious passion for understanding God&#8217;s Word.</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Jesse Waggoner</p>
<p><a href="http://www.twitter.com/JesseWaggoner" rel="nofollow">http://www.twitter.com/JesseWaggoner</a></p>
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		<title>By: MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-603</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=542#comment-603</guid>
		<description>Michael N.,

Thanks to you, too. "Communal kenosis for the good of the world" is clearly missional, though one might (rightly or wrongly) conclude that it is not evangelistic.

Thanks also for pointing us to Farrow's book and paragraph, and for raising the question of non-human creation, etc. As for non-human creation, I think Norm Wirzba and some of his students at Duke are moving in this direction, but I've not yet thought it completely through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael N.,</p>
<p>Thanks to you, too. &#8220;Communal kenosis for the good of the world&#8221; is clearly missional, though one might (rightly or wrongly) conclude that it is not evangelistic.</p>
<p>Thanks also for pointing us to Farrow&#8217;s book and paragraph, and for raising the question of non-human creation, etc. As for non-human creation, I think Norm Wirzba and some of his students at Duke are moving in this direction, but I&#8217;ve not yet thought it completely through.</p>
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		<title>By: MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-602</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=542#comment-602</guid>
		<description>Mike C.,

Thanks for your good words to/for both of us, and for the reminder that kenosis is inherently, not implicitly, missional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike C.,</p>
<p>Thanks for your good words to/for both of us, and for the reminder that kenosis is inherently, not implicitly, missional.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Cantley</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-600</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Cantley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I’m gonna jump in with the not so novel reminder that we are missional, like it or not—and ready or not! An over-anxious turn toward &lt;i&gt;strategy&lt;/i&gt; may tragically forego what we are to &lt;i&gt;be&lt;/i&gt;. We’ve got lots of messed up missional history when our “be” has been screwy. If this discussion is not about an over-anxious turn toward strategy, then you’ve—thankfully—been talking about something not so far apart all along. I don’t think either of you guys are separating “participation in Christ from participation in God” or “piety that divides faith from obedience.” So, with that said, I’m glad to cheer for both of you:


For MJG – Sir, arguing that this work is not about mission has some analogical kinship with arguing that Philemon has nothing to say about slavery. If we could, by God’s grace, get as kenotic and theotic as you and Paul point us, we would not miss a step in our mission. Kenosis does not &lt;i&gt;imply&lt;/i&gt; mission. It is categorically explicit. It is ontologically explicit. To get/be kenotic is astounding theotic missional presence! May we keep aiming ourselves this direction.


For DWC – Perhaps—instead of antithetical—your review might be offered from the perspective of how a grasp of MJG’s work, esp. &lt;i&gt;Cruciformity/Inhabiting&lt;/i&gt;, will properly inform/vivify mission. Your point will be sound and your review will be much more of the missional heuristic you want to offer. Kudos for the import you give mission! It can rightly be part of the seamless garment for &lt;i&gt;this—Cruciformity/Inhabiting&lt;/i&gt;, that is—to be what is “sent.”


Thanks for you both “talking out loud,” 
Mike C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m gonna jump in with the not so novel reminder that we are missional, like it or not—and ready or not! An over-anxious turn toward <i>strategy</i> may tragically forego what we are to <i>be</i>. We’ve got lots of messed up missional history when our “be” has been screwy. If this discussion is not about an over-anxious turn toward strategy, then you’ve—thankfully—been talking about something not so far apart all along. I don’t think either of you guys are separating “participation in Christ from participation in God” or “piety that divides faith from obedience.” So, with that said, I’m glad to cheer for both of you:</p>
<p>For MJG – Sir, arguing that this work is not about mission has some analogical kinship with arguing that Philemon has nothing to say about slavery. If we could, by God’s grace, get as kenotic and theotic as you and Paul point us, we would not miss a step in our mission. Kenosis does not <i>imply</i> mission. It is categorically explicit. It is ontologically explicit. To get/be kenotic is astounding theotic missional presence! May we keep aiming ourselves this direction.</p>
<p>For DWC – Perhaps—instead of antithetical—your review might be offered from the perspective of how a grasp of MJG’s work, esp. <i>Cruciformity/Inhabiting</i>, will properly inform/vivify mission. Your point will be sound and your review will be much more of the missional heuristic you want to offer. Kudos for the import you give mission! It can rightly be part of the seamless garment for <i>this—Cruciformity/Inhabiting</i>, that is—to be what is “sent.”</p>
<p>Thanks for you both “talking out loud,”<br />
Mike C.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael N.</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-599</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=542#comment-599</guid>
		<description>I do agree that mission is at least implicit in the book, not least in the chapter dedicated to the theological significance of Paul's master story including the narrative identity (cruciform) of Jesus and the participating church.  It is also explicit in the last section of that same chapter (“communal kenosis for the good of the world”).

For a book under 200 pages it seemed enough to work out theosis and the cruciform God.  I am hoping that future conversation includes how this participation in the cruciform narrative identity relates to non-human creation and other subjects such as art and aesthetics.

With respect to Paul's “mystical and doxological” thought, I was reminded of the book “Ascension and Ecclesia” by Douglas Farrow where he is discussing Irenaeus, the eucharistic community and the world:

“But the church, believing in the renewal of creation, offers an oblation which commits it to a life of responsible engagement with the world for the sake of its transformation.  Not that the church itself can or will accomplish that transformation from below, so to speak, or assist the world to do so...Indeed, the new possibilities implanted in its oblation by the Word and the Spirit, just because they are eschatological, consistently thrust the church back to the cross as the ground and pattern of its engagement.  But in the cruciform life of the church, in the witness above all of its martyrs, is the evidence of an unrelenting devotion.”

These works (i.e. contemplation and worship)  are not so much preliminary or foundational to outreach as they are part of that work.  How can it be otherwise?  If the church truly does participate in the cruciform narrative identity of God, then when it breaks bread it does not do so only for its own transformation, but also for that of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do agree that mission is at least implicit in the book, not least in the chapter dedicated to the theological significance of Paul&#8217;s master story including the narrative identity (cruciform) of Jesus and the participating church.  It is also explicit in the last section of that same chapter (“communal kenosis for the good of the world”).</p>
<p>For a book under 200 pages it seemed enough to work out theosis and the cruciform God.  I am hoping that future conversation includes how this participation in the cruciform narrative identity relates to non-human creation and other subjects such as art and aesthetics.</p>
<p>With respect to Paul&#8217;s “mystical and doxological” thought, I was reminded of the book “Ascension and Ecclesia” by Douglas Farrow where he is discussing Irenaeus, the eucharistic community and the world:</p>
<p>“But the church, believing in the renewal of creation, offers an oblation which commits it to a life of responsible engagement with the world for the sake of its transformation.  Not that the church itself can or will accomplish that transformation from below, so to speak, or assist the world to do so&#8230;Indeed, the new possibilities implanted in its oblation by the Word and the Spirit, just because they are eschatological, consistently thrust the church back to the cross as the ground and pattern of its engagement.  But in the cruciform life of the church, in the witness above all of its martyrs, is the evidence of an unrelenting devotion.”</p>
<p>These works (i.e. contemplation and worship)  are not so much preliminary or foundational to outreach as they are part of that work.  How can it be otherwise?  If the church truly does participate in the cruciform narrative identity of God, then when it breaks bread it does not do so only for its own transformation, but also for that of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: MJG</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-598</link>
		<dc:creator>MJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=542#comment-598</guid>
		<description>Hi, Angela,

And thanks for this. It is really good to hear the "full circle" in your words--from contemplation to service/mission. Some folks worry that contemplation sounds privatistic or non-missional.

There is a book out there called "Not the Cross but the Crucified." I'm not sure what the book's thesis is, but it should be that living in Christ/the cruciform God is about a dynamic relationship with Christ that is embodied in concrete practices--not an unhealthy devotion to the cross per se or to "suffering" As I have said on numerous occasions but never written (as far as I can remember), cruciformity is not the work of God unless it is, paradoxically, life-giving to others (see 2 Cor 3-5, etc.)

Blessings...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Angela,</p>
<p>And thanks for this. It is really good to hear the &#8220;full circle&#8221; in your words&#8211;from contemplation to service/mission. Some folks worry that contemplation sounds privatistic or non-missional.</p>
<p>There is a book out there called &#8220;Not the Cross but the Crucified.&#8221; I&#8217;m not sure what the book&#8217;s thesis is, but it should be that living in Christ/the cruciform God is about a dynamic relationship with Christ that is embodied in concrete practices&#8211;not an unhealthy devotion to the cross per se or to &#8220;suffering&#8221; As I have said on numerous occasions but never written (as far as I can remember), cruciformity is not the work of God unless it is, paradoxically, life-giving to others (see 2 Cor 3-5, etc.)</p>
<p>Blessings&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Angela</title>
		<link>http://www.michaeljgorman.net/2009/08/16/theosis-and-mission-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-597</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaeljgorman.net/?p=542#comment-597</guid>
		<description>Hi, Michael,
I am looking forward to reading your new book, Inhabiting the Cruciform God. I think this book might just be the natural flow from Cruciformity.  How can I say so?  This excerpt that was noted above and repeated here mirrors what has taken root in me:

But this process of transformation takes some human cooperation, including especially contemplation of the exalted crucified One (2 Cor. 3:18). For Paul, this is not merely a form of ancient, perhaps vacuous, mysticism, but a sustained reflection on, and identification with, the narrative pattern of Christ crucified and of its paradoxical power to bring life out of death (2 Cor. 4:7-12), all enabled by God himself at work in the individual and community” (Phil. 2:12-13).

I have been experiencing a rather unique transformation over the last couple of months.  Once the concept of “Cruciformity” was reassessed and grasped in my mind, my spirit hungered to reflect on Christ crucified.  From out of my contemplation came a spirit of servanthood like I’d never seen lived-out in me before!!  Over this past weekend, I ministered to several people in ways that confirmed that the Lord’s mission was at work through me.  I have fixed my focus and identity on the Crucified Christ narrative; I now see with eyes of compassion which compel me missionally onward.  I can confirm this inhabitation of the Cruciform God by my change of heart and missional mindset.
So, I look forward to reading, Inhabiting the Cruciform God and hearing your missional reading of Paul’s letter to the Philippians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Michael,<br />
I am looking forward to reading your new book, Inhabiting the Cruciform God. I think this book might just be the natural flow from Cruciformity.  How can I say so?  This excerpt that was noted above and repeated here mirrors what has taken root in me:</p>
<p>But this process of transformation takes some human cooperation, including especially contemplation of the exalted crucified One (2 Cor. 3:18). For Paul, this is not merely a form of ancient, perhaps vacuous, mysticism, but a sustained reflection on, and identification with, the narrative pattern of Christ crucified and of its paradoxical power to bring life out of death (2 Cor. 4:7-12), all enabled by God himself at work in the individual and community” (Phil. 2:12-13).</p>
<p>I have been experiencing a rather unique transformation over the last couple of months.  Once the concept of “Cruciformity” was reassessed and grasped in my mind, my spirit hungered to reflect on Christ crucified.  From out of my contemplation came a spirit of servanthood like I’d never seen lived-out in me before!!  Over this past weekend, I ministered to several people in ways that confirmed that the Lord’s mission was at work through me.  I have fixed my focus and identity on the Crucified Christ narrative; I now see with eyes of compassion which compel me missionally onward.  I can confirm this inhabitation of the Cruciform God by my change of heart and missional mindset.<br />
So, I look forward to reading, Inhabiting the Cruciform God and hearing your missional reading of Paul’s letter to the Philippians.</p>
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